A Virginia Tech professor said Tuesday that she pleaded with gunman Cho Seung-Hui to see university counselors when it became apparent he was sinking into depression, but couldn’t persuade him to seek help.
“I kept saying, ‘Please go to counseling; I will take you to counseling,’ because he was so depressed,” said Lucinda Roy, director of creative writing in Virginia Tech’s English Department. “… I was told (by the counselors) that you can’t force anybody to go … so their hands were tied too.”
Roy said that Cho exhibited a strangeness that caused concern for her and his classmates.
“There would be sometimes as long as a 20-second pause before he would respond … so people were concerned about that," she said. "… And, also, he always wore sunglasses, even inside.”
Suspect's writing described as "macabre," "twisted"
Roy said that despite her attempts to connect to her student, she was unable to bridge the chasm separating professor and student.
“We didn’t built up a rapport because he wasn’t the kind of student who would permit that.”
The perfect salve for a bad hurt
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As officials, students and families struggle to come to terms with the tragedy at Virginia Tech, a team of MSNBC.com reporters and editors and NBC News producers and correspondents is on the scene.
How was this person able to buy a gun? While I recognize that gun ownership is a very emotional issue, surely there should be some restrictions on potential buyers:
1. waiting period of 6 months from the time of applying to buy a weapon (obviously with exceptions for provable immediate threats to life and property)
2. Drivers are given tests before getting a license. Should not there be something similar for new gun owners? Gun ownership per se may not be the problem. However, just as some people have no business being behind the wheel of a car, others have no business owning firearms. Why not psychological tests (in addition to the obvious physical test) to determine a person's suitability to own a weapon? Is that too much of a nanny state? I think not!
Ashok, San Jose, CA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 3:41:04 AM)
My condolences to all the victims and family members and friends of the deceased. I am writing from Malaysia where guns are not easily accessible and such rampant shooting is unheard off. You don't hear guns being sold at supermarkets. It's time the US Govt enforce a law that makes firearms not that easily accessible esp to someone 23! Think about it.
Vincent (Sent Apr 18, 2007 6:08:49 AM)
My understanding of the "general" procedure regarding holding of a person in a mental health facility against their will is that it is usually for a very brief time (72 hours), the doctor must be reasonably confident the person may be a threat to themselves or others, and it's not that easy to do. How many of us have said "I could just kill so and so!" Do we mean it? Of course not! Sad to say, this person seemed to mean it even without verbalizing his thoughts aloud. Kudos to the teacher who went beyond the pale to try to get Cho help, but if our government could act on thougts or writings, a large segment of our country would be candidates for the possibility of inflicting harm on others. The university COULD have acted on the stalking and fire-setting incidents, but expelling Cho from school wouldn't necessarily have stopped him from returning to carry out this heinous act.
RAF, Knoxville, TN (Sent Apr 18, 2007 6:12:44 AM)
I would like to know if the cops just waited outside the building while the shooter was still shooting people or did they actually confront the shooter while he was in the process of killing his victims?
W. Allen Montgomery (Sent Apr 18, 2007 6:42:45 AM)
One question I had and I'm sure others are concerned with as well. Did the police just stand outside the building waiting for the gunman to stop shooting as the video showed? Or, did they actually get inside the building while the shooter was firing his gun at people? This is an important point because every effort should have been made by the police to stop the gunman from continuing to shoot to save lives. This man needed to be stopped in the act and I'm not sure attempts were made by the police to do this. Another question is why didn't the students try to overpower this man. Does anyone know the answers to these questions? Our prayers go out to the families who lost children in this tragedy. Thanks.
W. Allen Montgomery, Charlotte, MI (Sent Apr 18, 2007 7:20:32 AM)
While this is a very tragic event, think hard before you start placing blame. I think the college and police did what they thought was best at the time. We always say in hindsight we should have or we could have. The shooter obviously had serious problems but don't blame his parents, college, or police. The police do what they can do under the law. It seems they are damned if they do something and damned if they don't. Don't blame the parents. As the mother of 3 adult children there is only so much you can do for your child. Perhaps the parents knew their son had problems but their hands were tied. He was an adult. My heart goes out to the family and friends of all of the victims and also to the shooters family. They are hurting as much as anyone is.
Sandy (Sent Apr 18, 2007 8:16:37 AM)
The shooter was 23 years old. Legally, he was an adult, not a child. Parents and/or professors could not legally have him hospitalized.
Teacher Mpls. MN (Sent Apr 18, 2007 9:34:19 AM)
First, my heart felt prayers go out to all....the moms and dads who now have to bury their children, the friends who witnessed this horrible crime, those faculty members fallen while saving the lives of their students.
Second, in today's world when the two students were found dead in the dorm with no weapon at the scene, I just don't understand why one would assume this was over. The killer was still lurking somewhere. Why assume he was off campus? I don't mean to make anyone feel uncomfortable or point fingers. I just don't understand.
Last, as an educator, I see the unsafe conditions everyday our students are in. When will parents stand up for protection for their children? Ask questions and see for yourself just how protected your child's school really is. I am a very concerned teacher.
Gale Fitts Morehead City, NC (Sent Apr 18, 2007 10:52:50 AM)
It's the shooter's fault and responsibility, not the school, parents, school president, or the professors. Stop the blame game. This is truely a tragedy.
MAG, Pittsburgh, PA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 10:54:34 AM)
How close was Cho with his family? When did he start taking antidepressants? He must have talked to a doctor about his unhappy feelings to get the meds. Not many doctors will just write prescriptions for antidepressants without some type of counseling. Plus there are follow-ups when you haven't seen the doctor for a while and need more refills. His unusual and troubled behavior did not start in college. What did his parents or other family members do to find out what was bothering him and how they could help him? When a person, especially a loved one is exhibiting difficulties in the quality of their emotional life it is noticed. Parents step up to the plate and do whatever they can to get the child through the intense sadness,loneliness,anger,low self esteem feelings. Where was his family? No excuses.
S.Ann,Virginia beach,Va. (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:05:19 AM)
Everyone's hands are tied by civil liberties, but such liberties pale in the face of such a loss. How can anyone say their rights are worth an innocent life? Suggestion, If a person is referred for such things as stalking, harassment, bullying, threats or mental illness even alcoholism, or any other behavior that may put unsuspecting persons at risk, especially when they have been "pointed" out by different concerned persons, they should have their ID's stamped with a prohibition for guns, alcohol or what ever the potential threat may be. A probation if you will for a period of no less than 3 yrs. It may save a life, and may not be a permanent hindrance especially if it could also be a voluntary request that a person may also make if they have a moment of clarity. Such as: Do not serve, Do not sell, Do not give ________________ till____________. Perhaps this may be the least invasive and most helpful solution, in the early portions of troubled lives. Because we all know someone that doesn't usually have the where withal to help themselves.
Pam Miller, Fort Madison Iowa (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:11:02 AM)
When will America wake up and know that they are not GOD! Only GOD knows when things like this is coming...We as a nation need to stop the violence in everyway. We allow too much mess to enter into our kids minds, and when life gets too much for them, they snap...the BIBLE says, "If my people who are called by my name would humble themselves and pray, turn from their wicked ways, then will I hear from heaven and HEAL the land" America needs healing for so many things...Our leaders need to stop being so bias and political and understand that GOD sees everything and HE knows everything!!! My prayers are with the families that are affected by such a tragedy!!!
Keep it Real (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:18:09 AM)
please refer, to my earlier blog. Such a requirement for ID / Driver's liscense stamping for restrictions and prohibitions, either voluntary or mandatory , should be a law, It should also be considered as a cool down period, evaluation period or a self help assistance period that could be immediately imposed or granted, while other interventions are considered or sought. A do not Sell, Do not Give , Do not Provide _______________________ till_______________
(minimum of 3 years) May Save the life of the Innocent or the troubled. CALL IT THE VT LAW!!!!
Pam Miller, Fort Madison, Iowa (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:30:18 AM)
What has our society come to...It is obvious that this man needed help and he in his writting and actions asked for attention. Something should have been done. This was a horrible way to scream for help but what went wrong, what did someone not hear?
My prayers are with all those who have been affected, and with this boys family.
JJ, Ashburn, VA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:32:41 AM)
Our hearts are with everyone touched by this, especially Dr. Steger and the police chief. It is so easy to criticize, especially when all the facts are not yet available. Students and staff have been remarkable, despite their obvious anguish. We pray for the families and friends of the victims of this tragedy.
Gerri Hill, Leesburg, VA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 11:41:40 AM)
Hindsight is always 20/20. Pointing fingers as to who is to blame is pointless at this time. My question is this: - Where were and are the shooters parents? Evidently this boy was very tormented, very alone and if he had no friends, where was the family? He needed desperate attention. My heart goes to all the victims and their families. I only hope you can feel the magnitude of our prayers and thoughts as an entire nation has you all in mind. God bless you and your families.
Rachael Dauzat, Marksville Louisiana (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:04:07 PM)
it seems we never learn, one cannot smoke until 18, drink until 21 yet a young "adult" can buy a gun, semi automatic no less...shame on legislature for allowing this, and shame on the school for not pursuing alarms from faculty concerning the behavior of someone in need of obvious help/policies need to change to reflect the times we live in.
Ann, S.I.N.Y. (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:06:17 PM)
I think the professor that had him removed from the creative writing class failed him and the rest of the VT students and staff! Had he been able to write his thoughts down, even if they were Stephen king like, we may not be talking about it today. and even if he was disruptive and wore sunglasses inside(who cares when he wears sunglasses)try teaching in an inner-city school where the teachers make less money and they don’t have the security they do in a college setting. Do you think that professor may have alienated the shooter? Could it have been one of the things that pushed him over the edge?
The professor that took the time to do one on one study with him stepped up to the plate and did a good job! As a college student that’s the professor I want to teach my class!
C.M.C. Michigan (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:10:37 PM)
It's too bad Cho didn't have an outlet for his rage.
He would've been a perfect talk show host for MSNBC.
Just like Keith Olbermann, Cho was an angry stalker
who ranted incoherantly at the "rich" and unattain-able women.
Vote for John Kerry! Free Imus!
D Love, Brookline, MA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:16:06 PM)
I see this a mental health issue.
the shooter had mental health issues that should have been worked out. but it is very hard to force someone with mental health issues to get help. what is need a better way to get persons with mental health issues in a treatment program. The only time mental health treatment is required is after a violent act is commented or attempted.
Johnny5 (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:20:48 PM)
I question the teacher that removed him from her class, but they wont post my post! I think she didnt do her job and faild the students and staff at VT!
C.M.C. Michigan (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:26:54 PM)
As a parent of a VT senior student who thank God is fine i want to say that i believe that the university and police of VT have done the best they could with the information they had at the time.. The media wants heads to roll as if the tragedy itself is not enough.
P rachmeler, acworth Ga (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:31:36 PM)
I do not condemn anyone. Not the university president, not the police, not the gun store owner, not the mentally ill shooter. I greive for the families as every deceased person had a mother, father, child, siblings, friends just like us.
My simple question- what can we learn from this. How do we establish a process to prevent someone with the killers disorders from purchasing a weapon and ammunition 34 days prior to this horrific event? How do we take a professor, doctor or other 'trusted source's' warning as just that, then register the concern in a system and place the individual on a watch list that would not allow certain activities like a gun purchase?
Under Megan's law we register sex offenders. Granted they are known risks(since they have commited and offense) , but this is one step removed as we would capture those that are 'assumed' risks to safety.
To invasive to privacy? Explain that to the greiving families. As a parent and a child, I would gladly yield my rights in this area in the name of civil security.
J G M (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:32:11 PM)
I live in Toronto, Canada. My heart goes out to all.
No matter what Country U live in, something like this units people and souls together as one. My prayers and empathy go out to all and hope that the survived will get through this and the grieving will have the love and support to also pull through. Please console each other know that my thoughts are with you at this time in need.
Tammy Marie Tucci, Toronto, canada (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:41:53 PM)
As a teacher myself, I know that it is next to impossible to keep any type of school campus 100% secure. It is sad that we have to keep coming up with new ways and build new types of schools to ensure this 'lock-down' situation.
During this mind-numbing, shocking time - my heart and prayers go out to all of VT and their families. Will pointing fingers and finding out if things could have been handled differently change the situation? No ... but it could, and most likely would, prevent it from happening again. Unfortunately, in our current society - the school staff cannot over-react enough when there has been an act of violence on campus. It is not for the school administration or security guards to decide the violence is contained/over. If we have learned anything from these school massacres - it should be to take any slightest threat or act completely seriously and take precautions accordingly. The VT administration had the obligation and responsibility to protect its students and staff by putting out an emergency alert immediately(after the first shooting), locking down the school as much as possible, and calling in an immediate police presence. This should be standard protocol at all schools nationwide - no thinking, no interviewing people first - immediate action, immediate lockdown, immediate preventative measures ... even it seems like ridiculous over-reaction. Would it have changed the outcome? We'll never know - but it sure couldn't have hurt.
Do you think if someone was shot at the White House or another goverment building - the police would decide the situation was over (without a shooter in custody) and not send out an alarm and lock everything down? I doubt it.
T. Gonzalez, Jacksonville, N.C. (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:52:40 PM)
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