A Virginia Tech professor said Tuesday that she pleaded with gunman Cho Seung-Hui to see university counselors when it became apparent he was sinking into depression, but couldn’t persuade him to seek help.
“I kept saying, ‘Please go to counseling; I will take you to counseling,’ because he was so depressed,” said Lucinda Roy, director of creative writing in Virginia Tech’s English Department. “… I was told (by the counselors) that you can’t force anybody to go … so their hands were tied too.”
Roy said that Cho exhibited a strangeness that caused concern for her and his classmates.
“There would be sometimes as long as a 20-second pause before he would respond … so people were concerned about that," she said. "… And, also, he always wore sunglasses, even inside.”
Suspect's writing described as "macabre," "twisted"
Roy said that despite her attempts to connect to her student, she was unable to bridge the chasm separating professor and student.
“We didn’t built up a rapport because he wasn’t the kind of student who would permit that.”
The perfect salve for a bad hurt
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As officials, students and families struggle to come to terms with the tragedy at Virginia Tech, a team of MSNBC.com reporters and editors and NBC News producers and correspondents is on the scene.
One thought, its clear that when a faculty member became aware of an issue with him, she made every attempt, as did the counselors. But perhaps good policy may be if there is a concern with a student that they reach out to the student's family. Just a thought...
YMM, NY, NY (Sent Apr 17, 2007 5:43:20 PM)
the president did the best he could with what he knew.....2 hours sounds like a long time but when your investigating sometime to bad as 2 death in a dorm time flies.....hindsight makes people look so brilliant and critical...............they did the best they could with the time they had........
pam merrimack nh (Sent Apr 17, 2007 5:52:52 PM)
This is terrible - The worst thing that I have read here since the first hours of the tradgedy. The description of this professor points to a Psychotic Depression - the delay in verbal response being a cardinal symptom - psychomotor retardation. If this be the case, it wasn't counseling that would be required - This man needed urgent hospitalization in a secure psychiatric facility.
JLC, London, Ontario, Canada (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:00:59 PM)
According to the Chicago Tribune, he was on antidepressants. Many antidepessants come with warnings that they can cause suicidal and homicidal impulses.
Loren George (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:02:24 PM)
There is so little help for those with mental difficulties -- so little help for those who are depressed, obsessed, or otherwise having difficulties coping in life. There is no support for families, and that's one reason that it often appears families "ignore" members with difficulties -- it isn't that it is being ignored -- it's that it's impossible to get help. If you think you can pick up the telephone and get someone mental health help, you're dreaming. If you think you can show up at a counseling center and get someone help, think again. Even with problems such as alcohol addiction and narcotics addiction, it's just laymen helping laymen, unless you are very wealthy indeed.
Hol (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:09:08 PM)
There were obviously signs that this young man was seriously disturbed. Didn't his parents notice anything wrong? How long had he been in this condition? Sounds like the college really did do everything in its power to suggest counseling/help for him. But in my opinion, it's not up to school officials to bring about any kind of change. His parents/family members have (or should have) the most direct contact and the closest relationship with him. Surely there was some way they could have intervened to help him with his severe depression/paranoia. I agree with one writer that it sounds like he should have been at least undergoing some serious counseling or therapy and perhaps even hospitalized. Somebody had to know that he was seriously disturbed; I can't accept that a person like this could be totally isolated and not show some outward signs of these serious problems.
Marge Fuik, Oak Harbor, WA (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:13:20 PM)
sounds as if this individual has had problems for quite sometime and he needed extensive psychiatric treatment-my heart goes out to the pain he must have been feeling and also to his parents who now have so many unanswered questions-may God heal all the hurt
T. Constance Wilson, Orangeburg, SC (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:20:11 PM)
Antidepressants may have played a bigger roll in this than any of us would like to admit. Anything that alters your brain chemistry is something that shouldn't be taken lightly by anyone. Doctors are very quick to prescribe these drugs and the extreme number of people being prescribed these dangerous drugs grow each and every year. Our country needs to address this issue. Unfortunately we will have to go against a large and influential pharmaceutical industry to do this.
Jim (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:21:22 PM)
We must be careful when thinking that just because someone is taking antidepressants they may have suicidal/homicidal tendencies. I am concerned that there will be a stigma against medically depressed people if this is the type of information that gets spread. Besides, that only serves to isolate a depressed person more. I know plenty of depressed people that take medication that would never even think of acting out in violence. We need to tread carefully here. It seems to me this kid had far more problems than just depression! In my opinion, he had an anger issue that probably took years to come to a head.
LHB, Richmond, VA (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:24:15 PM)
In the aftermath of the worst mass shooting tragedy in the history of the country, the unanswered questions do not so much concern who did what right or wrong but how does the United States as a nationwide community stop this from happening again. There is an urgent and pressing need to take very seriously the question why, not to lay blame or avoid blame but to allow the truth to expose a way forward. Whatever this young man's problems, and they were undoubtedly of the most serious psychological nature, to admit that there is nothing more that could have been done or should now begin to be done to help others like him is as if looking bleakly and in defeat toward the future.
Rebecca Farinas, London, United Kingdom (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:26:58 PM)
My first thought was when reading this article was "Obviously there people who saw that this man needed help, this could have been prevented". Yet after reading some of the responses and reflecting on it a bit, I wonder what could have been done to prevent it. I would be interested in hearing some responses about how one would go about getting psychiatric help for someone who refuses it. "Seeing the warning signs" is one thing, getting the person actual help appears to another.
Kyle, CA (Sent Apr 17, 2007 6:34:19 PM)
If you do not have a gunman in custody or dead why would you assume the situation is over???
mark koppisch, Bedminster, New Jersey (Sent Apr 17, 2007 7:02:24 PM)
I worked on a college campus for 20 years. We had 19,000 students, and for the life of me I cannot see how anyone can secure a campus completely. It is extremely expensive to have a security system that would link all rooms to a central system to be monitored. I think that we should praise the president for doing what he thought best at a very difficult time.
Mollie P, Phx, AZ (Sent Apr 17, 2007 7:03:09 PM)
No parent should be faced with death of a child while attending an American University. Something is seriously wrong with our gun laws. Too many freedoms, too easy access to obtain them (illegally) now resulting in the deaths of innocent people, Children in the prime of their lives. It seems our media shoves violence down our throats, major events daily are ones of murder and violence. We cultivate this is our young impressionable adults. Where is the value system headed, where are the parents of this murderer? Why were they so out of touch with his mental state? Why didn't the professor push harder when emotional sickness was apparent in his written work. For God's sake take a hard stand, don't wait on the sidelines, one individual could have prevented this outragous horror. Our society must change now, we must all care about our fellow man, life, the world we all share. If you suspect a threat, mental illness, a person demonstrating signs of violence or possible irratic sick behavior....PLEASE DO SOMETHING....YOU COULD BE THE ONE TO PREVENT A TRAGEDY.
ROSIE BERNSTEIN JACKSONVILLE FL (Sent Apr 17, 2007 7:22:14 PM)
People with emotional problems, unless one wants,requests help DO NOT get help, even if the parents had him committed, etc. which would be for maybe 48 hrs. He had at least one professor who saw the problems, she got the same answers everyone gets; he has to seek the help; by this time he was way around the bend; Please be aware from whence I speak - it has been my thought for yrs. that if you maimed, or killed someone you might!!!! get help. I've seen it happen. The magic solution is for anti-depressants, come back in a month; he may, or may not have taken as prescribed; some cause a worsening of the basic problem; if, indeed he was "depressed", which according to what I've heard, read may not have been the problem at all - a much more deep seated problem is probable. My question is what did he exhibit in prev. yrs., back to high school, and were his parents ever asked in for a conference? Gun regulations I agree with -- but the larger problem here is "how emotionally sick was he", and what do we do to help those with mental health problems help themselves? NOW, remember, even those with mental health problems people have their rights" until that person explodes. And he did.
Carolyn L. VA. (Sent Apr 17, 2007 8:07:58 PM)
The full text from which this was exerpted can be viewed at MrTVideo@gmail.com
We Americans are excessively fear-driven. We are also excessively dependent upon others for the management of our senses of safety and senses of security. The best laid plans of the best law enforcement and protective agencies cannot protect any given individual or set of individuals from 100% of generally anticipated dangerous events, let alone unanticipated ones.
We should recognize, for example, that some individuals will become dangerous if they succumb to certain feelings. I believe that the some of the most dangerous persons are the self-righteously indignant. They are most easily able to overcome the usual learned barriers impeding most antisocial behaviors. They will have developed a sense of entitlement with regard to their personal desires. Within educational environments, common sources of disgruntlement include academic grades and evaluations, social subsets, rewards and recognitions, affairs of the heart, and affronts to moral and religious beliefs. Combinations of the preceding can be extremely effective stimuli. Unfortunately, few of us know how best to spot those most likely to overreact to various events. Instructors, for example, should know their individual students well enough to realize which ones tend to overestimate their competency, and resist and resent attempts at criticism and correction. Within that group will be some that will become ticking time bombs if they don’t receive the grades they believe they deserve.
Oops! Looks like I’m talking about some sort of profiling. If I was into that, I would be pushing for a reduction in enrollment of foreign students.
Here’s what I believe about college campus shootings and the danger thereof:
College campuses are primarily populated by adults (persons over 18 years of age). It is not in the interest of the institutions themselves to openly recognize this. The institutions believe that they will lose ground in the race to achieve and maintain high enrollment if they fail to promote images of being child-proofed G-rated environments.
Colleges and universities take their responsibilities for providing a safe, secure, and academically challenging and beneficial environment very seriously. They cannot and should not go but so far attempting to act in loco parentis for the adults within their environs.
Some campuses cannot be effectively “locked down” short of a quasi martial law type takeover by armed authorities.
All colleges with which I am familiar prohibit the possession of firearms by unauthorized individuals within their facilities. Such policies are sensible and correct. They cannot, however be seen as guaranteeing that persons will not violate those policies. The Second Amendment should not be sacrificed because of this or any other rare, but tragic event.
Airport-style security checkpoints (mere metal detectors would not be sufficient) at all building entrances might be useful – if it is acceptable to require each student to report to each building an hour before his/her scheduled class time. At the current level of technology, draconian security checks are impractical.
MSNBC’s Clint van Zandt has a point. He has suggested that some sort of campus-wide aural alarm system might be a low-tech, but effective way of notifying campus occupants of elevated conditions of danger. The campus near me has call emergency boxes placed throughout. They are topped by blue lights. An additional red light flashing atop those call boxes during campus-wide emergencies would be a relatively inexpensive and effective visual alert system.
College students are entering adult life. With adult life come adult risks and responsibilities. The realities (including the downsides) of adulthood should be part of their learning experiences.
Parents of college students should consider explaining some of the facts of real life to their children before sending them away to school. Parents who want their children treated like K through 12 students should consider send them to very small and/or very isolated colleges that might more easily be partitioned from the rest of the world, and more easily and effectively cordoned off during emergencies.
Understand that tragic events like the VA Tech massacre are extremely rare. It took four decades for Whitman’s Texas tower total to be exceeded.
The world is as it is. It is not, nor has it ever been “safe.” To believe that it, or parts of it, can be made completely so, is delusional.
Seek safety. Seek joy. Promote them both. Appreciate them when you have them. Realize though, that they are not entitlements. They, like earthly life itself, are temporary.
Taylor T. (Sent Apr 17, 2007 8:52:17 PM)
The professsor did absolutely everything she could to help aid this emotionally disturbed student; however, I'm not so sure that the counseling dept.'s remarks of "we can't force him to get counseling" is appropriate here..if indeed there were great concerns for the safety of others, based on this student's writing expressions and inability to "meld" with peers, the college should have held a counseling intervention hearing and require that he undergo a psychiatric evaluation. Thus this student would be placed on medical leave(non punitive) until this evaluation was completed. Based on the findings of this evaluation, continuance of his enrollment at this institution would have been decided..we do this every day in the public schools in NJ. Attending college is a privilege and not a right. Higher institutions need to look at implementing a zero tolerance policy that so many in our state's schools have acquired. After all, you are protecting the innocent as well as aiding the emotionally needy student and their family. I just cannot process the depth of the sorrow these students and their families are going through. You send your child away to school to be educated, not murdered.
MR; school counselor - Wall NJ (Sent Apr 17, 2007 9:08:14 PM)
As for the President of the school, Why would u assume the first incident was over if there was no one caught? I don't understand how something can be "contained" if not solved. As a parent it is unacceptable to say that there was a shooting, no one was caught, it was on school grounds, and class just went on. No arguements, class should have been cancelled, doors locked, and further the investigation, police on campus for the rest of the day.
It was brought to the attention of others on a local radio station today that "Everyone will be saying something about limit the gun laws now, and really the people who don't support the right to bear arms got what they wanted...not one person had a gun to shot back at this killer." I can see where one would have this point...BUT 1) if laws were more strict maybe the killer wouldn't have had a gun 2)Who can really think that fast when you are getting shot at? What student can just walk into a school campus and be able to have a gun in there possesion? Didn't this school have a threat of a gunman in August and several bomb threats recently? No one has ever heard of more security, metal detectors, anything I suppose.
Susan G. Birmingham, AL (Sent Apr 17, 2007 9:20:14 PM)
People with emotional problems, unless one wants or requests help DO NOT get help, even if the parents had him committed, etc. which would be for maybe 48 hrs. He had at least one professor who saw the problems, she got the same answers everyone gets; he has to seek the help; by this time he was way around the bend; it has been my thought for yrs. that if you maimed, or killed someone you might!!!! get help. I've seen it happen. Tha magic solution is for anti-depressants, come back in a month; he may, or may not have taken as prescribed; some cause a worsening of the basic problem; if, indeed he was "depressed", wich according to what I've heard, read may not have been the problem at all - a much more deep seated problem is probable. My question is what did he exhibit in prev. yrs., back to high school, and were his parents ever asked in for a conference? Gun regulations I agree with -- but the larger problem here is "how emotionally sick was he", and what do we do to help those with mental health problems help themselves. NOW, remember, even those with mental health problems people have their rights" until that person explodes. And he did. Now we have to hold parents, other loved ones, VA TECH students, staff, etc. in our hearts and prayers.
C Long Christiansburg,VA (Sent Apr 17, 2007 9:21:30 PM)
First and foremost, we need to keep the students, parents, faculty, and staff of VA Tech in our prayers. They did nothing to deserve what happened to them. As a non-traditional, returning student, I have experienced first hand the care and concern the faculty and staff of my university have for the students. I firmly believe that they understand most of the students in their care are adults age wise but are still trying to learn how to navigate in the adult world. Sometimes they act childishly. Does anyone really expect otherwise? The campus I attend is similar to VA Tech in that it is relatively small and suburban. The faculty and students are a "family" on campus.
Secondly, the president of VA Tech did what was necessary with the information he had at the time of the first shooting. If the police felt that the shooting was a domestic violence related shooting and the shooter was off campus, how could the president have known that the second shooting was coming? I don't expect people around me to be mind readers with the ability to guarantee my safety 100%. How can anyone guarantee the safety of others 100%? The one and only person to blame for this tragedy is the perpetrator. He made the decision, rationally or not, to commit these horrible acts. His parents did not decide, nor did anyone of authority on campus. Yes, he needed serious help, but no one could force him to get it. That was also his decision. Another thing that needs to be remembered is that his cultural identity is totally different from that of the American cultural identity. His parents may not have been aware of the problems he was having, they were not culturally able to recognize the problem.
Please keep the the victims in your prayers. I am. I am also praying for the young man who perpetrated this tragedy. The most broken of us need the prayers the most.
Wendy C, Cranberry, PA (Sent Apr 17, 2007 11:41:43 PM)
I would like to make a comment about the police, VT, etc; saying that they thought that the first two killings was an isolated incident.. So... a killer was walking around AFTER the first killings and they didn't see a need to get on the intercom by, at least, 7:30 and warn the TOTAL school that a killer was at large with a gun? Even if they thought the incident was contained the killer sure wasn't. This I don't understand...
God Bless.
Con (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:12:11 AM)
I live in Louisiana and the victims of Katrina were reacting the same way the victims at VT are; blaming the leaders. People, there is nobody to blame but the Korean dude. Steger did everything he knew to do given the amount of information he had at that moment....he never would have dreamed that 30 more people were about to be murdered. Yall cant go around looking for someone to blame. If so...blame the gun laws and handgun manufacturers. It was too easy for that guy to buy a gun, period. This could have happened anywhere.
Stuart Smith, Lafayette, Louisiana (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:31:21 AM)
My heart goes out to the families of the victims, but also to this poor young man's family. I do not know enough about Korean culture to know if that also prevented him from getting help and support, either from professionals or his family. I do know that somewhere there are his parents, whom also have to grieve for the death of their desperate, disturbed son. They are also left to live with the grief expressed about all the others, whose lives their son either ended or changed for ever...
Maybe Peace Begins With Mercy
Lulu ~ Pennsylvania (Sent Apr 18, 2007 12:32:15 AM)
The family often knows that their son/daughter needs mental health counseling. The problem is that the son/daughter refuses to get help. You cannot force them, unless they are a threat to themself or others. How do you show/prove that?
We need mental health OUTREACH to these people. Since they won't go for help, have the professionals come to them! As a family member, I'd open the door gratefully for them to talk to my family member.
g. kortes, vancouver, WA (Sent Apr 18, 2007 1:23:06 AM)
First , my family gives our HEARTS to the victims
and their classmates, friends and relatives!!!!!
PRAYERS ARE WITH YOU.......
The ONLY one to blame is the SHOOTER (CHO) himself
alone and no one else, unless they helped him carry
out this horrific tradgedy ....
What kind of person can put any of this onto the
University President, Police force, staff or anyone
else ... GET REAL, Blame the only one responsible
the shooter.... Not the gun manf. not the Univ. Pres.
Not the police force ... the SHOOTER and only him!!!
Place the blame where it belongs....
If he had used a butter knife to carry out this
senseless rage would we place blame on the schools
cooks????? The manf. of the silverware????
NO it is the person that carried out the tradgedy..
May some LIGHT of Hope shine thru the darkness
for victims relatives and friends!!!!!!!!
P Stickler Minnesota (Sent Apr 18, 2007 1:52:58 AM)
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