If we are not wanted lets get out and save our kids. We should only be there if we are wanted and we will be loved, like in Kuwait.

"The China Shoppe Rule: If you break it, you own it"! {Colin Powell} The USA is in a real pickle and somehow we will have to find a way to settle this fight-short of a Total War edict by Bush Jr. Can't have another chicken little exit a la Vietnam II, or that whole region will blowup!Meanwhile very few souls are joining the Army or Marines in my area and that says a lot for the "volunteer military". (The same occurred in WWII when there was both a draft and volunteer military. By 1943, the draft board had to stop the volunteer portion because everybody was going in the Air Force or Navy before the draft notice arrived!) A limited lottery draft is needed now, or else the USA should bring the troops home and dig a hole in the sand and pray the badmen go away.

I think instead of putting Saddam Hussein to death, we should put him back in power. At the very least when he was in power they had electricity that worked consistently. We are causing the same atrocities as Mr. Hussein, not only on the people of Iraq, but also on our own country men and women. I think it is terrible. I am not a left wing.

You know, democracy really only works in a country where the people are basically reasonable. If you have a nation of people who have a significant portion of its population with access to funds, weapons, and have an agenda that is outside what we recognize as the rule of law, well you have a Somalia in the making.

While we bicker and argue about who's right and who's wrong, Tawhid and his buddies set up extortion rackets under the guise of protection from the likes of these assorted militia and so-called occupation resistance groups.

They are not interested in dialogue. They are not interested in tolerance. They are, I would argue, interested in control. Mainly, in achieving it, and exploiting the rest of their countrymen. They are thieves, criminals and murderers at rock bottom, and little more. Sophisticated, yes, but thugs nonetheless.

The blame game is always fun to play but to start playing it before the chips have fallen is a bit ludicrous and does no good to address the current situation. The blame game will not win anything for us.

Meanwhile the cream of Iraq's population, flees to Jordan, Syria, Iran, and other neighboring countries. This is a significant problem, and one needs only look at Afghanistan to see what happens when the cultured, educated middle class flee their home of birth to see what it will result in.

Spare us the rhetoric, please.

Lets be realistic, the people of this region have been fighting among themselves for centuries. The simple fact that we are there with a military force has not deterred their battles or violence. I support our troops as we all should but we need to let the people of Iraq rebuild their own government and set up their own democracy even if it comes down to a "civil war". Besides, without civil war the U.S would not be where it is today.
Death and violence are bad but it seems to be a human need and neccesity to end disagreements with both. In retrospect we need to fulfill our commitment to the Iraqi people and hand the country back over to its people even if it means more bloodshed. Let Iraq fight for Iraq.

Ithink one thing is clear america has wronged the iraqis mothen saddam, both bush and saddam should be hanged period

Why write vitrolic nonsense purporting to know the truth, while everyone who disagrees is "lying." Amazing. Sometimes we believe in something, because our spirit compels us. I believe in the USA, it is a trustworth, not a lying country. I believe in our soldiers, they are courageous and noble defenders of our values. I believe in our President, he aspires to worthy goals -- and the Iraqi people are grateful -- except for the miniscule percentage of nihilists, who find it more important to destroy than to build. They cannot succeed.

The warmongers sure thought it was important to DESTROY iraqi infrastructure...and they can't seem to handle BUILDING replacements either.

Belief has no place is a rational discussion about actions which affect millions of people.

Belief is intellectual laziness and I do not accept it as a basis for any action or decision.

Suicide bombers BELIEVE that they are going to 'heaven' with 72 virgins.

Religious Americans BELIEVE that the Iraqis had WMDs, a source for Yellow Cake and AlQuieda ties.

Sloppy language leads to sloppy thinking.

Anyone recall the terrorist plot to blow up U.S. airliners over the Atlantic that was uncovered by British law enforcement a few months back ? If not for the British police several of our airliners and thousands of people would now be at the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean.

Why is this significant ?

It proves once and for all that our troops in Iraq have nothing to do with protecting us from terrorism at home. How would our troops in Iraq have protected us in this case ? Answer: they would not have protected us just as they are not doing so now. Rather, they are being used as death pawns for Bush's sick, misguided personal and political ambition.

The war in Iraq never had anything to do with protecting us from terrorism. The entire world now knows that we have a sick, selfish liar for a president. Until neocons face up to this sad truth, Bush will continue to "stay the course" in Iraq no matter what any commission may advise and no matter how many people have to die !

Hopefully our leaders will bring about a change in policies within Iraq that can lead Iraq into stability and get our soldiers home. A democracy would be nice but I have serious doubts if democracy is possible in a country so divided by religious hatred.

I also have serious doubts that the current President and his advisors can lead anyone into anything after watching our kids needlessly die in Iraq. By needlessly, I mean die from road-side bombs because the vehicles they ride in are not armored. Die from bullet wounds because vests do NOT WORK. Casualties would be less than half if our soldiers were adequately supplied with battle prepared vwehicles. It is occasionally brought up but swept under the rug as Rumsfeld sent our soldiers to die in unarmored Hummers with ill-prepared and tested equipment and they became sitting ducks for religious wackos from both sides. Supposedly armored vests that stop being so armored after being worn.

How can any American trust an administration that would do this to its own??? It is as close to negligent homicide as a government official can get.

I wonder how long Mr Rumsfeld would be willing to drive around those mean streets in an un-armored hummer???

This is a war that cannot be "won" At best we can withdraw with a minimum loss of face. The people of Iraq don't even understand the concept of a "democratic" government and any government we put in place is doomed to failure or will rise up against us in the future. Let history be a lesson and learn. How many governments have we set up that are now totally antiamerican? Get out quickly and make their oil pay for the infrastructure repairs.

Iraq citizens probably don't give a d... about the Iraq Study Group report. They are fighting daily to stay alive! Since we destabilized the country by our brutal attack, everything goes down the drain over there. No electrical power, no warm water, no jobs, no security, over 100,000 Iraqies leaving the country every month (those who have the money first), most probably more than 1 % of the population killed due to us making a mess out of it.
In my humble experience I can only compare this to what my mother taught me: "If you mess it up, it's you who is going to clean it up and it is you who is going to bear full responsibility for your deeds!"
How stupid can this administration be (sorry, I know they are really stupid) to believe that other countries are going to be willing to help us cleaning up our mess? Risking the death of their soldiers? With the money of their taxpayers? They remember quite well when in 2002 and 2003 our government went it alone, scolding those who did not join us as cowards. Do you remember: "When you are not with us, you are with the terrorists". Well, obviously almost the complete rest of the world is with the terrorists, Europe, Asia, Africa, Australia. If Tony Blair would have listened to his citizens, there would not be a single British soldier in Iraq! Just go to Europe and listen to what "the man in the street" tells you. Then you know how they think about us!

You people crack me up! :) Fact: America has never destroyed ANY of Iraq's "infrastructure"; we keep trying to build it (even when built poorly), and Iraq and foreign terrorists keep destroying it.

"No weapons of mass destruction"--Bush lied! FACT: they were there, they are there, and they HAVE BEEN USED AGAINST US TROOPS. Have you all forgotten the incidences? Artillery rounds were triggered on two occassions, causing US troops to be treated for BIOLOGICAL agents. Oh, yes... that's right, our media only ran it for a quick nano-second, and liberals claimed something to the effect of "Since it's only been used twice, and are obviously 'left over' weapons of mass warefare... it's not like you can say that they are weapons of mass warfare" (I am still trying to figure THAT mouthful out. Somehow, just doesn't seem to fit the symbolic logic model...)

Clear up to FIVE (5) seconds prior to the outbreak, Saddam continued to INSIST that he had those weapons of mass destruction, PROMISED the world that he WAS going to use them against coalition forces... but it's the worlds fault for believing him? Why would we have believed a man, who had PROVED-PROVED-PROVED that he not only had them, but had also used them? Boy, that George Bush... what an ass for believing it, huh? Tar and feathering...

Or, how about the AL-Quada terrorist training camps, PROVEN to be so, found inside Iraq early in the war? How about all those shoes that the terrorists left as they fled the camps, WHICH WERE THEN PROVEN TO HAVE BEEN EXPOSED TO CHEMICAL AND BIOLOGICAL weapons of mass destruction?!?!

Yep, boy, were we ever stupid to take down Saddam. So what that we are STILL digging up the mass murder graves? So what that he deliberately targeted civilians, and babies. Yes, even murdering babies several days old with his weapons of mass destruction.

You are all convincing me that you are in the MORAL RIGHT! That is, yes, they are not americans. Foreigners.

Yep, you've swayed me to your radical liberal anti-war ways. Like you, I'm going to try to start believing that if I look the other way while millions are murdered by murderers...

I mean, if it's not 'my' people... just because we/I can stop it, or try to help... why should we? Who cares about the murdering of babies, women, children... the list is endless.

You guys sure don't.

I want to be just like you guys when I 'grow up'.

You really ARE the true american heroes of our age.

Until we are independant of Mid East oil and until we stop bickering and pointing fingers at each other in our gass guzzling autos the price of gas will keep getting higher and higher. 11 Brave men gave their lives today for your next fill up. how long, and how many more???????

Yes the president has made mistakes in the way he has handeled the war. But the one thing we all must remember. It doesn't matter if you are for the war or against it, Osama considers you an infidel and he want you dead. I'm thankful that the republicans were in office on September 11,2001. If it had been the democrates they would still be meeting to decide what course of action they should take. We should all support our president and our troops. Our troops do a job everyday that none of us want.

Too bad neocons don't realize that Bush was planning for war long before he entered the Oval Office. Visit the PNAC web site some time and do a little reading. You may learn something.

So Bush wanted to protect us from terrorism, huh ?

Why did Bush take no action after the CIA and the FBI certified the Cole bombing as the work of Ossma Bin-Laden just 8 days after Bush took office in 2001 ?

Why did Bush downgrade the terrorism threat at that same time saying it wasn't a Cabinet level concern ?

Why did Bush NEVER even try to get Ossama Bin-Laden ?

Why did Bush, Cheney, and Rice refuse to listen to Richard Clarke and other counter-terrorism experts about the threat of Ossama Bin-Laden ?

Why did Bush take no action when French Intelligence contacted him 4 weeks prior to 9/11 telling him that Zacharias Moussawi was an Al-Quieda terrorist wanted for helping plan attempted airplane hijackings in Paris in 1997 ?

Why did Bush take no action when 11 separate countries warned him prior to 9/11 that terrorists were planning to hijack airliners and crash them into buildings ?

Why did Bush lie and say that the Clinton administration gave him no advice for fghting terrorism when a 13-page document describing just that was given to Bush in early 2001 ?

Why did Bush use forged documents (the Niger papers) to justify war when Italian Intelligence, FBI, and U.N. all certified the document was a forgery ?

Why did Bush accept the word of one intelligence operative (Curveball) on WMD when that person provided no physical evidence whatever and that was confirmed by German Intelligence as he was their operative ?

Why did Bush say just after 9/11 that Saddam Hussein would be dropping nukes on us in 6 months if we did not invade Iraq immediately ? Saddam didn't even have a nuclear reactor !

Why has Bush's phony joke coalition been 90% U.S. troops from the start ? What is the percentage now - at least 95% our troops ?

Why did FBI managers refuse to belive their own agents who repeately warned that terrorist suspects (some even on FBI watch lists) were training to fly commercial airliners at U.S. flight schools ?

Why did the 9/11 Commission (controlled by Republicans) refuse to interrogate FBI managers for not believing their own agents in the field ?

I could go on here for many paragraphs but why bother ? You neocons are to busy planning our next war where we will once again invade first andd then try to establish culpability later (if we can).

Why is Bush asking for help now ? Is it because Liberals made our military fail ? Gee, I though it was Bush and Rummy who called all the shots !

So what happened to "Cut and Run" ? Guess that didn't work to well in the recent elections did it ?

Just for the record. We have Trident nuclear submarines stalking Iraq, North Korea, and Iran. At the President's command just one of these submarines has enough nuclear firepower to turn each of these countries into a nuclear parking lot in 15 minutes !

But hey, why tell people the truth when Bush's "Chicken Little the sky is falling phony scare tactics" work so well on neocons !

Who would have ever thought that it would be the Dixie Chicks and Michael Moore who got it right while Bush and his cronies would turn out to be the real traitors !

Consider the following questions and then determin if this rises to the level of a war or a contrived military action by Mr.Bush and friends. First Mr.Bush stated mission accomplished a few years ago but insist that we're still at war, who is determined to be the enemy, and by the way, what is the mission, can we force democracy on these people, and do they really want it, where is all of the oil revenue to finance the so called war, why was sadam's sons so brutally killed and not brought trial as their father was, and was these killings war crimes, where's the womd, is Chaney Bushes brian, where is the billions of dollars to help rebuild Iraq? And does Mr.Bush think we the people don't recognize a fraud when we see it?

How many people here have ever fired a MAK-90, SKS, or AK-47? Imagine 13 year old boys running around with these Weapons of Mass Murder (In all regional conflicts).

If you havent seen the movie titled "THREE KINGS" starring George Clooney I suggest you rent it today.

People say GW is stupid. Has anyone compared a long speech by Tony Blair (extremely intelligent and articulate as politicians should be) to a speech by GW (A rooten tooten cowboy who smirks and tells his enemies to "bring it")? That right there is reason to lose all hope.

Sincerely,
On the fence

William-

If someone like you knows we have subs with nuclear capibilities stalking the waters off Iraq, Iran and North Korea would it not be safe to assume that everyone else knows about the location of the subs. If launching leads to all out neclear war do you really think that is a smart thing to do? I think it is safe to assume the rest of the world is aware of what our nuclear capabilities are and would be very concerned about their outcome if they chose such an avenue to explore. As far as Bush and Rummy calling all the shots, I think I recall most if not all the democrates signing off on the attacts when it first came up. After things didn't go as all had hoped the Dems. tried to find a way to place blame without mgetting their hands dirty.

There are ofetn comment about the "liberal press" - yet if you have not seen Fox News, NBS, CNN over the past few years then you must be living under a rock. The press has been over on the "conservative right" since 9/11. Before the the Baker-Hamilton commission and the latest Democratic Victory in Congress, most of the press and news agencies were to afraid of not being invited to the White House BAR-B-Q to speak the truth or to ask the administration the tough questions that needed to be asked. I spent 2 years out of the last 3 in Iraq. I have talked to Iraqi people from Basrah to Baghdad. Reality . . . Saddam Hussain was the only thing that kept that country together. Trying to force a western style "Democracy" onto people that have never experienced it is retarded. Spend a little time to study thier culture, learn thier language and read more about Middle East history - then you might understand what is going on . . . and accept the fact that we never should have entered that country in the first place. Al

Having served for 3 years in the U.S Army (including overseas in South Korea) Myself, I have seen the results of helping a country re-build after war. For example: We stayed & helped Germany, Korea & Japan...look at what those countries have become & how much of a contribution they make to Our world now.

The negative filled "let's get out of there," or "the war can't be won" attitude is only indicitive of what We as Americans have become. Rather than actually put up a strong effort, regardless of the daunting task which lies ahead, & work through the struggle; many of Our ever growing lazy citizens decide to simply give up. Think about it, in marriage, when it gets tough; We get divorced. At work, if the job is too hard or demanding; We quit. In school, if the work is too much, We drop out; and use the excuse, "I'm not going to use any of it any way in the real world, anyway."

Think about how many Americans are quick to vote for the Next American Idol however don't bother to vote for the Next American President. Many can name the top 5 Celebs in America right off the top of their head, but can't remember the names of the first 5 presidents.

If more of Us actually knew, read & understood the history of Our past mistakes in the middle east; then We wouldn't base Our negative assumptions for a solution on current short-comings. The last time We helped a country rid itself of a government only to leave them to fend for themselves & figure it out on their own, came back to haunt Us. Think, Afghanistan & Communism.

Let's stop & give credit for the effort that is made by Our leaders, regardless of how it might make them look in the public eye. Considering the fact that many politicians, during the Clinton Administration, decided to forget completing the mission in the past because making a decision would possibly tarnish their image.

As any service member knows... "Mission First, Mission Last."

Ok, I’m going to be ignorant here.
Similar to dealing with children why not give people in Iraq something else to do?
I cannot imagine that if the hundreds of thousands of people living in tents, etc. had something better to do with their time like building houses, projects, etc. that things might slowly change. What I’m referring to is similar to the projects that Roosevelt ran to end the Great Depression. Why couldn’t infusing some of the billions of dollars that are going into the war help stop the poverty that exists?

Have you ever seen a group of people who hate each other work for a common goal? As the soldier above stated we’ll never hear in the press from the majority as they are in fear of their lives

For example for about $1200 a home could be built in hours using a monolithic dome shell. The dome would be about 1200 sq ft . The building uses local building material (DIRT) and is almost indestructible. $1,000,000,000 would build 833,000 homes very quickly.
http://www.monolithic.com/gallery/nonprofit/dftw/index.html

Secondly the domes could be made bigger to make into businesses, etc. and very cheaply.

Before all this happened there were skilled laborers in Iraq. Those individuals could be used to train others and quickly. Pump some money into restoration now and maybe by getting some of the people out of poverty and some self esteem then maybe the majority of people who just want to survive and provide for their families, will out number the idiots.

I know I’m what I am thinking is in the most simplistic form here and it is not as easy as it sounds; however, if it were I living in a tent city I would do whatever I could to improve my situation given the opportunity. I cannot imagine that the people in Iraq are that different that they would choose extremism over survival.

Grab some Iraqi people, teach them how to construct the houses, give them an unlimited budget per say and plot out the land around them if possible and give them the ability to hire others to start building.

Grab some Iraqi people, teach them how to farm and maximize produce and pay them for the food to give to others. Setup hydroponics or whatever one would use to minimize the water usage to grow the crops in the desert. Each home could quite simply have a mini hydroponic garden by using PVC pipe if they had water available?

Enough ranting I have to get back to my school work. My point is give them something to do, train them to train others and they might just get better on their own.

Using Saddam's atrocities to justify US atrocities is dysfunctional. Just because Saddam's atrocities were on a larger scale, doesn't give the US atrocities a pass.

Pre-emptive strikes are never justified. Can you imagine this Bush Preemptive strike policy being used during the Cold War?

All I can say, is if you still support the war at this point, enlist. Otherwise, get ready to watch it all crash down.

Invading Iraq was EVIL and UNJUSTIFIED and took resources from chasing the REAL criminals hiding in Afghanistan.

But hey...if you want to keep giving up your freedom and encouraging the USA to be a hypocritical bully on the foreign stage...I guess we'll have to duke it out in the polls!

I am a veteran and I want to say thank you to all the brave men and women who are in Iraq… your dedication to service and freedom can not be question. What we can question is President Bush and his disregard for your life and safety. To the people who said that we were justified in going to war…….we were justified to go to war in Afghanistan. We should have left no stone unturned and destroyed the Taliban with the utmost diligent. What we did next should have every citizen angry at this administration. We were attacked by the big guys (Bin Laden) but we started a fight with the little guys (Iraq). Had we allowed the UN inspectors to complete their work in Iraq we would have found that Iraq had no weapons of mass destruction. Let’s not forget the words of Bush who said that he would go into Iraq even if he had to go in himself. We should have allowed the gun toting Texan to have gone in himself. The war would have been over and the hundreds of thousands of innocent men, women and children who have been killed in Iraq would be alive today including our innocent men and women in the military. It has been proven that Bush and Rumsfeld had approved torture so the service men and women should have never been convicted of the crimes at Abu Ghraib. Bush did the Christian thing at first and lied about torture then he came out and said that he approved of torture. How can veterans had stood around and allowed the military men and women at Abu Ghraib be convicted of these crimes? The other thing that veterans should be mad at is how Bush and Rumsfeld continued to allow the thousand of service men and women to continue to die in Iraq without trying to change the course. The only reason why Bush fired or let Rumsfeld resign is because of the political change in the Houses. Had this not have been done the old policies would still be in play and nothing would have been done and Bush would have continue to protect his friend Rumsfeld. They would have still been in Washington basking in the glow of how stupid the troops are for supporting a man who would never and did not join the military and been in combat. When I look at Bush I think of the scripture in the Bible where it says people would be deceived and how satan comes as a wolf in sheep clothing. This is the MOST CORRUPT administration ever. For people to rejoice at the killing and the war in Iraq is to continue to hammer the nails in the hands of Christ on the cross. Wake up people and look at the Iraq war for what it is ……………………war crimes by the administration. There is blood on the hands of Bush and his administration. If you support this war there is blood on your hands as well and may God judge you for what you have done!

Theodore Roosevelt
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."