"(Sunni Baathists)...feeling betrayed by the Americans, who after all did promise that they would not target the military if soldiers and officers refused to fight in the 2003 war."

With an insufficient number of boots on the ground in Iraq after the March 2003 invasion, all the Bush administration had to do to maintain security was offer the Sunni Baathists in the military and police forces twice, if not three times, what Saddam Hussein had been paying them. Then, the U.S. forces could have recruited more moderate Shiites (at the same wage) into the restructured Iraqi military and police forces, not missing a beat in the transition period while marginalizing the more radical Shiites, Sunnis and foreign fighers, including the Iranian-dispatched Hezbollah agents that flooded into southern Iraq shortly after the March 2003 invasion began.

Instead, the Bush administration decided to treat the Sunni Baathists the same way the Republicans have been treating the Democratic Party the past six years, with disdain, with lying, with arrogance.

And what is happening in Iraq today is a direct result of this neo-con Republican insanity, fueled by Iraqi exiles, like Ahmad Chalabi, seeking revenge on all the Sunni Baathists. Tens of thousands of Iraqi dead or maimed for life. Tens of thousand of U.S. soldiers dead or maimed for life.

This is the Bush/Cheney/neo-con Republican legacy for which they will be remembered...and despised.

Civil War or not? Who cares. This all takes me back to advice I was given long ago,"Don't fight. Walk away if you can, but if you find yourself in a fight, make sure you win the damned thing, or you'll have to fight the same fight over and over again". We blew the first part by fighting. Let's not blow the second part by losing.

It seems that most of the Iraqi's only want confusion, violence, hate, and death(martyrdom)! Let them have it, let them do what they want - to kill and blow each other up, but get our men and women OUT. Why waste our trained and loved military in the middle of this civil war that the Iraqi's want at any cost? Oh, the answer is so the president can line his pockets with oil tainted by blood of our families and the innocent Iraqis. I am sure that there are some in Iraq that don't want the violence but they are far and few between, and pay the price with their lives and the lives of their children. As do we!
I haven't forgotten the reason we went there, 9/11, but I'm sure that Saddam wasn't on the planes or is the 20th highjacker. We should ask if the true reason was oil or that it was to remove Saddam from power to protect the Iraqi people from his genocide of the "inferior tribes", however they don't appreciate what we have done. It has become an open invitation for hunting season of our military and those of their Iraqi brothers.

You could call it a civil war. A better term, in my opinion, would be anarchy, which basically means social disorder due to a lack of governmental control. The Iraq situation clearly satisfies this definition. The current Iraq governmental structure is nominal. There is essentially no effective governing body in Iraq now.

I think we place too much emphesis on whether something fits a defined term such as "civil war". The definition of any term is relative. What should be considered are the results and possible outcomes.

I think the Bush Administration has lied to us. They said that Iraq had chemical weapons and it didn't. They implied that Al Qaida had direct ties with Iraq and it didn't. Bush even stated that the Republicans would not only win the Senate but also the House in the 2006 US elections. Start eating your hat Mr. President or start telling the truth. Bush knew as well as anybody that the Republicans would loose the House and lied directly to the American people. For a president that says he prides himself on telling the truth, that sure makes me think he hasn't been frank with us on Iraq.

What the media reports concerns me some. But what really concerns me are the stories I hear from the soldiers that come home from Iraq. Stories that the war isn't going well. That things have been botched up. That there is little to no hope. That is something you rarely to never hear from soldiers that come home from a war. Normally when soldiers come home they state how they believe we are right in being there, that there is a purpose. And even if things aren't going well and they disagree they stand behind their president.

Almost all of the soldiers I've talked to, even the Republican ones are breaking rank. They aren't standing behind their president. They tell how there have been cover-ups and how information has been twisted or completely mistold. Some have even told me that one policy is basically "if you don't know, make it up till you do know."

Mr Engel, if you want a real story that will get the attention of Americans, give some interviews to our own American soldiers at random in Iraq and shield their identities so they can speak frankly and so Americans can hear their stories and views without the threat of their superiors officers and the Bush administration guiding what the soldiers allow themselves to say.

I read your article and found it is based on past history. How is that news? I would much prefer the media focus on the facts and address the who, what, where, and when about diplomatic, political, etc. issues in the works to resolve the conflicts whether they be local, national, or international. Rather than citing past events then stating what are basically personal opinions and describing and rating individuals involved, why not simply report how and what those individuals are doing to work toward resolving the conflicts.
After reading the article and all the comments I find most all of it is nonsense because they tend to lead readers to foregone conclusions. I listen and read to develop my own opinions and draw my own conclusions about the facts I am provided.
I do not want the media telling me the conflict in Iraq is a "civil war". I do want to know who, whether is be an individual, group, or organization, is working on resolving the conflict; how they are planning to do it; and, perhaps why that individual is pursuing the proposed plan of action. Whether their plans and actions succeed or fail remains to be seen. Such success or failure should be a subsequent news item in the form of how the result will followed up.

Thank you, Mr. Engel, for your informed analysis of the situation in Iraq. Providing historical context for the war we see today is one of the most useful things a reporter can do. It seems to me that lost in the debate over the words "civil war" is the more chilling reference Mr. Engel makes to ethnic cleansing. Those words say more to me about the catastrophe in that region than anything else.

Some are refusing to call it Civil War for political reason. I do understand why they said.

Please keep in mind that if you cannot correctly characterize the true problem, you will never ever be able to solve it.

To Keith,

How many soldiers have you talked to? I've read/talked/seen/heard from many soldiers, and while I have heard some anger from them, mostly it was because they aren't allowed to do their job. Look at the re-enlistment rates for soldiers already over there. Look at the number of soldiers who have volunteered to extend their tours or come back for more?

As far as Bush knowing he was going to lose the election, regardless he's going to say that he thinks they are going to win. When you play football, even if you are going up against an undefeated team you talk like you are going to win. Win you go to get a job and feel horribly under qualified, you hype yourself up that you are going to get it. That is what people do, and there's nothing wrong with saying you're going to win when you think you're going to lose.

As far as the other misinformation, it's too late, the mess is there! Stay in, do what we said we were going to do, and then leave. Not stay the course, but stay true to your word. In order to really fix it, you have to change what we are doing, but leaving will never fix it. You think Sudan is bad? You think that lynch mobs in the South were bad? Just wait until you see what happens if American troops pull out before Iraq is ready for it.

I know several Iraqis, several Soldiers, and have spent countless hours talking to them and other people from the region about what was going on out there. There is a general consensus between all of them, the Sunna Iraqis, my Persian Shi'a, and the Military men I have spoken to.

From a former faculty member of Baghdad University, a Sunna. "The US should not have gotten involved, Iraqis should have done it, like we did in 1954 when we overthrew the Monarchy. They are there now and they need to stay until it's right"

From another Sunna, a female, "I remember in 'the old days' we were allowed to drive, and even walk outside without a Hijab! Look at us now, here's that great democracy at work!"

From a former Soldier who served in the Persian gulf, "We should have taken him out in 1991, before 9/11, and we wouldn't have had these problems."

Here's how you fix Iraq. It's not rocket science.
http://tlocfym.blogspot.com/2006/11/red-fish-blue-fish.html

The civil war between Sunnis and Shiites began shortly after the death of Mohammed. And the only thing that held the artificial state of Iraq together was the ugly glue of the Sunni Baathist dictatorship. Once we removed that glue, it was inevitable that open civil war would be the result and that the entire volatile region would be even further destabilized. Only the sheer hubris of Bush and Cheney, their astounding ignornance and overwhelming arrogance, prevented them from seeing that. Now there is no simple way to undo the damage done or to prevent even more on perhaps a larger scale. All we can do as a people is resolve to learn from our tragic mistakes. We must immediately free ourselves from all dependence on imported oil, and from every hubristic desire to try to remake the world in our own image, too. US foreign policy, and US military might, should never again be used except to defend American vital security interests strictly defined. In short, bring US troops home now, from Iraq, from the Middle East, and from everywhere else in the world where they serve only to destabilize and inflame areas we have no need to be in to begin with.

I read you artical and I read the comment It sounds like no one know the anwser. Some give you there answer and some give you book answer. If go by the book more then one country is at civil war. My thought are Mr Bush should just dust of Saddam and say we made a mistake and give him back his country
and tell the Iraq and amerca people You don't like it my way we will go back the other way. I think we are damed if we help and damed if we don't. Buy everyone including usa people thank you

I can't believe so many war-supporters are in denial about the state of Iraq.

Hey guys, remember in 2003 when all those ME experts stood up to denounce Bush's plan as a pipe dream?

Remember how they predictd the sectarian strife, the civil war and the corruption?

Our government has lied so often to me, that I automatically assume the opposite of what they claim. So far that has been working.

If the news media wants to interview soldiers, they will get the official military line and no truth.

We can't win in Iraq. It's impossible, because the whole plan was impossible from day 1. How about some of you acid-tounged war-supporters enlist and help fight the fight you so believe in? If you believe so strongly that you would insult strangers...why aren't you fighting?

What's the matter? Chicken? Greedy making more money in a civilian career? Felt that because managed to breed, you should be exempt? Heh.

If this is a war, it certaintly isn't OUR war. Does anyone believe we can win this debacle? What does BUSH hope to accomplish? What is the end result? My son will be 18 before BUSH is gone and I'm scared to death. If we had the right to be there I'd be the first to say kick butt. THERE IS NO WINNING FOR US.
Come home now.

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, well it's a duck!If it looks like a civil war,people on all sides die like in a civil war, innocent people suffer like in a civil war--guess what we have folks?

It's always good to get the important things done first. OK, so it's a civil war.It looks more like anarchy but who am I to say. Is there an end in sight? There is no winner here. Everyone loses except the US Corporations cashing in. It's time to bring our people home and declare a major disaster.

Very good. My question would be will time make the two factions become like political parties or, regardless of negotiation internal or external will religion and specific culture promote agitation similar to Isreal - Palestine?
bighornmusic.com/corporatenation/

Officially calling the war between factions a "Civil War" by NBC goes to show how biased their reporting has become, espcially on the TODAY show. Yes, it can be called that but so was Korea. Should we get out because of it? It's too late now, we cannot leave these people to complete anarachy. NBC made their announcement for political reasons only. As suggested in other blogs, get some of the reporters out of Baghdad, into other regions of Iraq where there might something positive to report. Get both sides of the story and stop the Walter Cronkite imitation.

ENGEL
YOU TALK LIKE YOU ARE SOMEBODY IN IRAQ, YOU ARE A ZERO NOTHING YOU WALK AROUND IN SAFE ZONES,IF YOU TOOK A WALK BY YOURSELF I GUARANTEE YOU THE SUNNIS,SHIAS,KURDS WOULD KILL YOU IN A HEARTBEAT SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU ARE AN AMERICAN WHO CAME TO THEIR COUNTRY AND DESTROYED IT.

Recognizing the variables between literal words and contextual meanings (and no doubt I'll bet Mr. Engel is well aware of this, by his saying "this is not blue vs. grey", if nothing else) from language to language, I can't help but notice how these English words C.W. do set off sparks. This is not a bad thing. It did put me in mind of context ... This bit now is a parable, or metaphor, or just weird chance story (which includes Time and even a little Revisionist History) ... Nothing more. No lesson. No fresh ideas.

Key Words: U You "slang for TV" the tube - Vegetable Soup - American Slang New York Education Oreo Black PBS.

1970's multiculturalism in its early days: a child learns to be themselves, regardless of color or creed, and to express themselves. Example: language according to Black Americans (and English Cockneys) as directed by educational experts. A lesson in Slang presented by the show Vegetable Soup. I showed this clip to a younger friend; they appeared taken aback when the show's cartoon characters started discussing the term "oreo." How very wrong - one might say today. That's not Politicly Correct. However, objectively, looking back at the time, it sounds brave and liberating, as if it was finally time to be able to use such an expression publicly. At the time, in the 70's, I thought it all made sense, from a unique perspective of my own, not Black but a sort of Fringe Dweller nonetheless.

Context & primary documents (as is the formal news, and is the blog and comments submitted to and all global decisions) create not only the end definition but the gooey middle ground, as well.

Sounds goofy, but this is blog territory. Evening dress is for the Formal News.

Much like the Hatfields and the McCoys in the American culture, the peoples of the middle east have been fighting each other since biblical times and NOW not one of them have a clue why they are still fighting now. While we can read to find out "why" the past happened to understand the present, noone cares today, until it affects their personal space, rights or "feelings" and then the blame game is on.

The media is the major terrorist source of information because the "news" media companies refuse to just report the "news" as it happens as in the past. Reporting the news has turned into the biggest REALITY SHOW on the planet. Who can get the scoop and report it first, even if it ends up not being true, it was good air time anyway.

I agree with a previous writer in that there is a large number of positive things happening in Iraqi that are nowhere near the media flurry, simply because it's not blowing things up or destruction in the worst possible way. Just look back at when Iraqi Freedom started. Media personell in hotels, reporting news during the attack as if were a natural place to be.

Society has become an instant gratification minded group and things have to take place fast and furious for anyone to care about it. We have become numb to the reality around us. Liberty and Freedom are costly! A price that far too few people are willing to pay for themselves, even for their own family to say nothing about anyone else. Our military today is a volunteer force and I am one of those volunteers! I have the integrity that most do not it that I will come right out and tell you and I won't hide behind "anything" when I tell you. If you don't have what it takes, that is fine, but don't put down those that are willing to pay the ultimate price for your freedom or those of people I've never even meet.

We as Americans can't take the isolationist stand point taken during WWI and WWII. The world is too small and our collective society's are intermixed more than we may like or care them to be, but that's the way it is. We must of course take care of ourselves and our families first, but we have to look at the big picture and how our little part of the world, called your life is affected by or affects the world. Think of what you buy and use on a daily basis and where it comes from or who made it.

As Andy Andrews says.....every decision you makes matters! Every choice you make or don't make matters and it's affects can and will be felt by you and those around you. YOU ARE YOUR OWN BUTTERFLY EFFECT, so mind what you do.

i agree with Mr. Midkiff from Huntington, WV. NBC should stick to reporting the news not trying to MAKE the news. The terminology is irrelevant no matter what your political persuasion may be. To make a unilateral decision to call the Iraq war a civil war is a continuing effort by NBC to embarrass the presidency and maintain your liberal bias. All of the stories that are presented on NBC concerning Iraq are negative to the administration. I agree that the rationale for the war is suspect as time elapses, however, it does no good for NBC to editorialize your opinion. I have decided not to watch the Today show or NBC news in the future. If i want to read an editorial, i'll read the local paper.

Iraqi people wake up! You might not ever get another chance to live a democratic life. If not for yourself, do it for the future of your children. Our American Troops are shedding blood for a better life for you, rid of those terrorists that continue to cause misery in your lives. Help our American Troops to help you.

the usa can't set a country free, if they have no idea what freedom is. mr. bush put us into a situation that has no end. iraq wants to govern it's self, but only knows rule by force. we as free people do not have the right to tell some one else how to run their country, when ours is being overtaken by illeagle immagrints. if we want to run the world, then let's take control of it, and run it better then we are the usa. or the world is doomed.

Reading some of the supporters of Bush in these comments is just too much. For those of us who did NOT vote for Bush and were AGAINST this war from the get-go because we knew he was lying (it was that difficult to see, folks) we do not support the war, the civil war, the great party (call it what you like!) that's going on now!
I do not buy for a second the Republican stance of, "Well, we're in it now, let's finish it." We didn't want to be there in the first place! It was a really, really bad idea!
It does not take a remarkable scholar on Middle East history to see that Iraq was difficult to rule, ask the Brits! Who put the Sunnis in power! But that Bush, Rove, Perle, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Rice, Cheney--all those "geniuses" who put this pathetic plan into action--couldn't see the mess they were going to make is beyond me! How can we common, not-Harvard educated, half-wits see something so clearly and these Gods and Lords of our nation be so freaking blind!
Tell you what Republicans, I want my tax dollars to go to AMERICANS and to fix our worn out system. Let Bush use YOUR tax dollars to finance this fiasco... Fair is fair. Let the dimwits who voted for this guy pay the consequences.