Great post by the person regarding religions 1,2,3,4,&5. I'm in religion (1-4). I'm struggling with the concept of protecting myself from religion #5. Does that make me an extremist? I want protection (either lethal or peaceful) from #5. Does that make me no better than #5?

Maybe the best solution is to let #5 kill themselves and hope there's nobody left to come after #1-4. Sad.

It would be nice if the people of Iraq would love their children enough to stop the violence. The people who are causing this violence are guilty of child abuse and there is a special place in hell for child abuser. It is high time for the adults of Iraq start to place the health, well-being and welfare of Iraqi children, irregardless of religious affiliation, first 24/7/365.

I am a shia ismaili muslim who believes in Aga Khan as our spiritual leader. We of course believe Allah(god) is one and Prophet Mohammad (PBUH). and from what someone said earlier before it wouldnt matter if your shia or sunni but now it does. It does make a difference. Sunnis are known to be more consertative and shias more liberal. Sunnis go by the Quran word by word they dont try to interpert it the way it is now in the real world. Shias do. Its kind of sad yes there are more sunnis out there (80% are sunnis) but the sad part is that you could be wearing a scarf to hide your face and your body but it doesnt mean your clean from the inside. Once I went to a club and I saw a girl who was wearing a head scarf and I am just thinking to myself Are you kidding me? Its very disrespectful and I wish I had said something but didnt. Anyways-people dont realize this goes back all the way to Prophet Mohammad and when Hazrat Ali became his successor and sunnis dont recognize that and they should especially b/c it did happen. It just really sucks that people dont want to recognize Shia muslims as much. When it comes down to it -as long as you believe in the Quran, Allah and Prophet Mohammad why should anything else matter. We should all be in peace and happy with each other. I hope this ends one day. People are getting killed and I guess all we can do is pray. From what Ive seen its easier for a christian to marry a muslim but its even harder for a shia to marry a sunni and vice versa. I wish they were so narrow minded and live life the way it is now and not from 1000 years ago. I hope it all just ends with peace.

People try to support 'moderate' versions of religion. Unfortunately, that takes away a bit of the divine, doesn't it? How are we humans to know which parts of our holy books are to be taken literaly?

Personally, I think religion's usefulness has ended. Now it is an impediment. Humans have so many differences to fight over, why must we make up stories to fight over as well?

Every religion proclaims itself the one and only true religion. That's all you need to know! It's a divisive concept created first to explain the unknown and then hijacked to control people.

I imagine a world without religion...where morals and ethics are derived by introspection and analysis of social dynamics...not the 2000+ year old stories of some band of roaming savages...complete with baggage.

Is there a Muslim out there - Shia or Sunni - who can explain what the Koran says about domination of other religions and how we of other religions are supposed to react to this? I've read the Koran and it sounds very threatening to me.

I've just read the comments made, and can i just say as a British/Pakistani mislim I think I agree with a lot of the things said but could i point out you can't blame the whole religion for a few extremists who don't care about consequences. No-where in the Quran does it say it's ok to kill innocents and especially women and kids. And as for different sects living side by side it's happening everywhere and was even going on at the time of the Prophet(SAW). The whole world, especially muslims need to stand up and say not in my name. Once these extremists lose there followings they will crumble to nothing.The divide between sunni's and shia is nothing compared to what could happen if we don't stamp it out now.

Great post, thank you.
My family immigrated from Iran to US when I was 16, and for the first time in my life people asked me if I were Shia or Sunni. This question puzzled me, because growing up in Iran (where the division is 80%-20%) we never asked, and never cared. The question would often be followed up with "Isn't that Iran and Iraq are at war?" (the year was 1987). Ah, no, that's not what the war was about.
Unlike some Christians who identify themselves as Catholic, or Baptist, etc, if you ask a Muslim what their religion is they say Muslim, not Shia or Sunni. There is a great misunderstanding in the West about Islam, unfortunatley.

I was raised a christian, and I believe in good and evil and their should be a ballance, how ever I was taught something in my childhood that seems to have been forgotten and that is their should be a separation between religion and state. Reliogion is for your spiritual self and should be kept away from political venues. All governments of the world use religion as a tool for this or that to sway votes or to get them fired up to cause kaos so they can keep their competitors off ballance. There is no Religion of godly type faith that condones violence, but throughout history man has killed in the name of his god. When it comes to running a government it has to be impartial to all differences of the people and do what is right for the people as a whole, but there is no money in that or popularity.Religion has become the new racism to plague the world. Religion should be a choice of the individual and that individual should not be persicuted for it. Any person or group of people that kill in the name of their god, profit or religion is a non believer of the truth and has tainted that religions true beliefs and why does the true belivers sanction the violence that these groups cause it seems to me that if no one is willing to do anything to stop it within their religious group they must condone the violence. There are more of us true believers of peace and harmony than there are of the fanatics, why can't we turn them all out to be dealt with by the authorities. Since it seems that no one has come forth and said that their religion is for killing, then why do the people of any religion let anyone claim to be a part of their religion. Has all reliogion become two faced, Religion is still true and pure the word has not changed for centuries, its man and woman that have become sacroligist and blastfemers of religion. I believe that all goverment of the world have their own religion and that is money, greed, and power and we the citizens of the world are their pawns. I ask only one question, what goverment from what country is their that does not act in its own self interest for the good of the goverment and not the people, yea sure they say its for the people but they only stand to gain, if the people gain it is only a by product of their devious plans. What country puts the health, welfare, education of its people first, NONE the polititions and goverment officials take care of themselves first and then see what they can do with what is left over. The world needs a new vision if humanity is going to survive.

Stewart.
Yes Stewart, when you know what rights are given by Isalm to women (As a mother, a wife, a daughter, a sister) then you will understand. There are many website to get info (just stay away from the fake ones)
E.G.
There is no media coverage for the response of the US muslim leaders/clericks, otherwise they have said again and again that there is no voilence in religion, they disagree with the pope comments and are ready for a dialouge on the issue.

K.M.

Qur'an says that people should be told about Islam, but there is no compulsion in religion. Qur'an opposes aggression/oppression by anybody (muslim or non-muslim). An Isalmic govt has the responsibility for the security and safety of the people and shrines of other religions in their jurisdiction. Bujt today most of the leaders of the islamic countries are not elected the islamic-way, rather they are dictators.

As for the shia and sunni issue as long one believes in Allah (SWT), the message and messenger (Qur,an and Muhammad (saw), that should be considered as muslim. Does not matter if shia or sunni.

As a muslim you will not be forgiven for killing innocent people, wether they are muslims or non-muslims. I don't know which islam these people follow who are killing innocent people?????/

I am a shia muslim American and I proudly wear a headscarf (hijab). I want to make it clear to the American people that wearing a headscarf does not make one an extremist. Its a sign of modesty and respect. I am observing my religion on my own will and I am not imposing my beliefs on others. I respect all religions and I expect the same from others. I think there are a lot of misconceptions about Islam in America. Islam teaches tolerance and respect for all religions. One of things I love about America is freedom of religion. This country is founded on this notion. I can't wait for the end of the Bush term. I am looking forward to a new administration who will be more tolerant of all religions and not alienate Islam.

Seems to me that religious strife coincides with economic and political strife. It's so much easier to be tolerant when you do not feel threatened. It's not so much a matter of religious belief. It's more about a particular religion being identified with a particular class or group of people - and used as a marker of superiority or inferiority.

Khan06,
The media will provide coverage, as long as the story is deemed newsworthy (in other words, the news attracts eyeballs to advertisers).

That being said, you are basically saying that the moderate Muslims have made a stand, and that the Pope is wrong. That's not newsworthy, nor is it correct. The Pope is right. The Muslims are guilty of expanding their faith by violent, coercive means rather than by converting by using free will and reason. It's not just a Muslim problem. The Catholics have done the same in the past (Inquisition, Crusades, etc.).

What the Pope was trying to address was that Islam (as a whole) refuses to accept that they make mistakes; that they faith as a whole lacks introspection. If a moderate feels that the Pope is wrong, then the moderate is aligning himself with the crazies. And therein lies the tragedy, in that the moderate Muslim community in the USA or Europe could agree with the Pope (in part), counter with the similar Catholic "dirty laundry" (there's plenty in history), and thus start a dialog engineered towards healing the rift between the faiths.

And that's why I said that "The world anxiously awaits the roar of moderate Muslims, voicing outrage at the extremist reaction to the Pope's comments." Because the moderates are needed to start the dialog. The world really needs them to speak out, and yet they have been conspicuously quiet.

There may be something even more fundamental than religion here. It sometimes seems that there is something in our genetic makeup that makes us hostile toward those outside of our “group”. Maybe it is the same survival instinct seen in a pack of wolves, or a troop of gorillas, where the members of the group support each other but, would kill an outsider.

The big question becomes how do you define your “group”? You could consider yourself to be a member of a village, a nation, a tribe, a religion, a sect, a race; there seem to be an infinite number of answers depending on the individual and their culture.

If the group, or even a few of its leaders, approve of violence and hostility, then those with the predisposition now have a rationale for acting it out and being “heroes” for doing so.

Having served in Iraq twice it has given me a little insight to the day to day operations of one's beliefs or disbeliefs depending on how you are and your faith. What is troubling is the lack of vocies from the majority of educated Muslims around the world? Where are they? Why do they allow a violent minority sect to preach hate, destruction, and death and claim that it is the words of the Qu'ran? Why have we not seen an out-pouring of out-rage at the actions of the insurgents and their followers. Who in their right mind would sanction whole sale killing of unarmed men, women, and children for the sake of killing one so called "non-believer"? What makes many Americans puzzled by their actions and lack of conscienious is that here in the U.S. if an armed attacker killed innocent people in the name of a certain religon say Southern Baptist then members of that church and fellow believers would denouce such actions and assist law enforcement agents to remove such people. They are not doing "God's work" and therefore are no better than any criminal. This is not the case in Iraq or the Middle East. The recent rise of religious schools in poor countries have gave the Islamic extremist the ability to "mass produce" such extreme views and extreme methods. Along the Pakistan and Afghanistan borders these small schools provide basic education to otherwise an illiterate community. The study is simple, either you are a true Muslim (Wahhabist) or a Non-believer. If you are a non-believer you are fair game for a "true Muslim" to do harm in the name of religon. Sunni vs Shi'a, Shi'a vs Kurds, Wahhabist vs Pashtun beliefs. This situation is what young American soldiers are facing everyday. A long and never ending blood fued that has been going on before the Middle east knew what oil was. It is far easier for Arab countries to allow religous leaders, politicians, and radical Imans' to point the root of all evil in the Islamic world towards the United States than to admit and attempt to fix their own internal strife and short-comings. Uneducated, lack of reading and social skills, unemployment, and low self respect has allowed thousands of Islamic followers to hed the call for jihad and start blowing themselves up. The Pope made a comment about a 14th century comment referring Islam and violence, the next day Islamic insurgents killed a unarmed nun and firebombed several Christian churches. The reply from the terrorist said that they conducted these attacks in revenge for the Pope calling Islamic religon violent? Make sense? Yet we see no calling by Islamic leaders to denouce these attacks, no one from the moderate side attempted to stop the violence when the cartoon fiqures of the Prophet were displayed in Europe? Al Jazeria or any of the Arabic news agencies attempted to down play or attempt to show a moderate view, instead they fanned the flame to otherwise obscure areas of the world to provoke out-rage and violence. Iraq is no different. We are seeing that the only thing keeping Iraq from sliding into a religious quicksand was Saddam ruling with a cruel and iron fist. With Saddam in jail and the country being used by Iran and Syria as a "buffer" state is it any wonder that the violence is increasing rather than slowing down? They will kill each other to the end of time and noting we do or say or attempt to create will stop one side from killing the other. They have been doing this since before the creation of the U.S. so it shouldn't be any shocker. Maybe if the Arab community world wide would stop worrying at people who make comments about Islam and start working to put out these fires and shut up the radicals then maybe the world will be a safer place.

K.M. To answer your question.. It says in the Quran that you are suppose to be tolerant of other religions. If they do not believe in Islam thats okay but you should be tolerant and not judge somebody elses religion. You may want to go back and read the Quran and its interpertation. It is not threatening at all. Actually, it even talks about the simpliest things for example on how to brush your teeth! Read it and you will realize how great it is. Peace!

This is for the Muslims on this blog. Does the Qur'an state that "If you believe in God, no matter if you are Muslim, Jew or Christian, you would know no grief or sorrow"? Also, it seems that the extremist element seem to place Mohammad before God. Why is this?

EG,

Responding to your quote:

“The world anxiously awaits the roar of moderate Muslims, voicing outrage at the extremist reaction to the Pope's comments.
Where is the leadership of the moderate Muslim community, especially within the Middle East? Why doesn't the European or even the American Muslim leadership speak out? They don't have to support the Pope's position (actually the Catholics have plenty of historical instances of brutal repression and forced conversion). All they have to do is answer that they are willing to help steer the greater Muslim community towards a dialog; a dialog that can heal.”

Here is the statement from The Islamic Society of North America (ISNA), which represents the majority of Muslims in America:

http://www.isna.net/index.php?id=35&backPID=1&tt_news=780

I have visted Baghdad since the 70's until the fall of Saddam , and never heard , saw , or any one questioned you weather you are a Sunni, or Shia.

this is what the Americans democracy did to Iraq.

To all the moderate peace loving Muslims...

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.”

In a world of global communication everyone needs to learn that "image IS everything". The world needs to see massive rallies by the moderate and tolerant Muslims, decrying the extremism in Islam.

After explaining to my 12 year old the reason for the outcry against the Pope reported in the news, the response I got was as follows; I hate Muslims. We need to put one of those invisible fence dog collars IN them and fence off Islam or Afganistan or whatever, and let them all kill each other.

To see huge numbers of people and goverments reacting violently to the Pope's implication that Islam is violent brings to mind a famous quote "Stupid is as stupid does."

When I hear proclamations that there is no compulsion in religion from Muslims I can't help thinking about the guy in Afghanistan who was under the threat of death for converting to Christianity. The ONLY reason he was not murdered was because he was declared insane (because anybody who leaves Islam MUST be insane). I should not forget to mention the forced gunpoint "conversion" of Steve Centani and Olaf Wiig?

So Sunni or Shia does not matter. They both have a serious image problem they both need to address. Who knows, maybe Islam will split again and the moderate will see the extreme for the evil that they represent and actually do something, beyond the "That's not Islam" commentary. The Christian world had no problem putting down the evil Christian Nazi govt., yet serious large scale commitments from any Muslim country are lacking.

" Not care ", I think, is not exact description, a misnomer, of the sentiment in question. I come from Slovenija, a part of former Jugoslavija. I studied in Beograd ( Serbija, at time ), lived in Maribor ( Slovenija ), and subsequently worked in Zagreb ( Hrvatska, then and now ). We formed friendships with each other, some of which last up to now ( a time span, encompassing such dramatic events as disintegration of Jugoslavija, civil wars, the misdeeds of ethnic cleansing, the slaughter of Bosnian Muslims, and many crimes - committed by a human being. How important is it that most of them were done by " the Serbs ". Am I to drop my serbian friends? My moral beacon is " there are good and bad individuals amongst us as they are everywhere on this globe. It is, perhaps, the media and the politicians who group them into " axis of evil " and, I guess, to simplify categorisation. " good ".

The problem is that there is religion in the first place. How are people going to understand the nature of reality through a fog of religious fairly tales. I take the position that science is the best approach to understanding our world. Religion gets used by hateful manipulators. Also, I believe that we are at the beginning of a terrible religious/cultural war. Soon cities will be devastated by nuclear weapons. The west should stop waiting. We should attack those hate monger regimes now. It's going to happen anyway,the sooner we get it started the sooner it will be over with.

People need to stop taking themselves and each other so seriously, that's the problem..

Beliefs are dangerous.

Mariam, the Muslim terrorist extremists have alienated Islam themselves. Bush has stated on many occasions that Islam is a peaceful religion. Now, I'm not a Bush supported by any means (I can't wait for him to go as well), but don't make connections that aren't there.

Someone just said "we in the west don't care what religion others are". Reffering to America being completly capable of having many different religions living in peace. Yeah, it's kind of become that way, but keep in mind, America doesn't have a perfect past. Why were the Native Americans drivin out of their homes? Because they had wierd "pagen" religions. What were the pilgrims doing in America in the first place? They had a wierd religion, and they were drivin out. The Quakers? The Catholics? The Mormons?
Um, America has had its fair share of religious problems. Sure, we're learning to live in peace, but tell that to the guy who screams at me that I'm going to Hell every time I go downtown (and I mean every time, and there are quite a few of them).
We're really good at arguing, but when are we going to learn to agree?
"Agree with thine adversary while thou art in the way, lest he turn again and rend you."
Or how about, "Do unto others as you would have done unto you."
We have some pretty good ideas going around, now lets try and use them.

hi jim, thanks for the article and thanks for sharing. i really miss my dad now though. i converted about 11 years ago and moved to jordan (made hijra) about 5 years ago. i haven't been able to go back and see my family since. i've never heard from a convert's dad about his relationship with his muslim son or daughter. i like knowing something about your personal situation so i can see how it may inform your reporting. i'll definitely look for your posts in the future and share this one with my dad. by the way, i was asked by a non-muslim when i first converted if i was shia or sunni. i said i follow the beliefs of sunnis but i'm just muslim. that's one of the things that i love about Islam, the brotherhood and the oneness of the umma. it is very apparent on hajj. i'll tell you that i am hurt much more when i hear about muslims (sunni or shia) killing fellow muslims than i am when i hear what the pope said or see a danish cartoon. please give your daughter (my sister) greetings from me next time you see her, i don't care if she's sunni or shia. ask her to pray that i get to see my dad and the rest of my family sometime. thank you. with peace and prayers for your safety.